recent visit to london

on the weekend of june 10th, my son david and myself went to london to visit family and friends, i thought it a good opportunity to take a couple of pictures of my mum and dad to post them here. we also took a visit to where most of my brothers ashes are kept, in his mothers grave
I had a good chat with my father about pictures and he gave me a good rundown on who was who, i shall be putting all of these photos on the blog in good time.

My dad, Dermot, 94

My mother, Mary, 84

My sister Carol

My brother, Michael

All of us in my mothers flat in Battersea, thats my son David in the middle

My fathers first wife, Ivy's grave in Streatham, where martins ashes are buried also.

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My Grandads medal

My Gradfather, Martin Curran was in the Dublin Metropolitan Police, and received this medal, so i have been told by my father and aunt, for being a personal escort to Queen Victoria during her visit to Dublin in 1900. In the Garda Siochana museum in Dublin castle, i spoke to a man there, and he said that this medal was only to commemorate the visit of the queen, and that he felt that maybe my Grandfather was just boasting to his kids, so as to make them pass on their story through the generations. I like to think it is true, because that is what I have been told all my life.

Hints and tips on tracing your family history

1901 census document for the Currans in Drumphea

Everybody has a different story to tell, but I can only share with you my own experience.

First thing to do is to write down everything you know about the older individuals in your family, and what you know about the deceased ones, where everyone is now, to the best of your knowledge, and potentially what they can tell you.

After doing that, then you need to speak to the individuals that you feel are important in what information they can give you.

You should treat these situations as you would an interview, firstly you must send warning that you are coming a few days in advance, so as to get the person thinking about what they can pass onto you, or to give them time to show you photographs, letters, documents and the like. It is also very important that you have any documents, records, photographs or memorabilia to hand of the family which you are discussing with them, as it will definitely jog there memory into other things, that maybe quite important. other things that would be very handy would be a laptop computer, a printer scanner, and some kind of voice recording device. The latter being very important as you can listen back a few times after to transcribe the conversation, and maybe pick up on anything you may had missed if you were scribbling into a notepad. Technology has really revolutionised genealogy.

Next you should have written out a list of questions, because if you go there and you don't do this, I can guarantee you that you will walk away and later you'll think of a question that you thought of, that you forgot to ask.

here is a list of suggested questions;

1. What is your full name? Why did your parents select this name for you? Did you have a nickname?
2. When and where were you born?
3. How did your family come to live there?
4. Were there other family members in the area? Who?
5. What was the house (apartment, farm, etc.) like? How many rooms? Bathrooms? Did it have electricity? Indoor plumbing? Telephones?
6. Were there any special items in the house that you remember?
7. What is your earliest childhood memory?
8. Describe the personalities of your family members.
9. What kind of games did you play growing up?
10. What was your favorite toy and why?
11. What was your favorite thing to do for fun (movies, beach, etc.)?
12. Did you have family chores? What were they? Which was your least favorite?
13. Did you receive an allowance? How much? Did you save your money or spend it?
14. What was school like for you as a child? What were your best and worst subjects? Where did you attend grade school? High school? College?
15. What school activities and sports did you participate in?
16. Do you remember any fads from your youth? Popular hairstyles? Clothes?
17. Who were your childhood heroes?
18. What were your favorite songs and music?
19. Did you have any pets? If so, what kind and what were their names?
20. What was your religion growing up? What church, if any, did you attend?
21. Were you ever mentioned in a newspaper?
22. Who were your friends when you were growing up?
23. What world events had the most impact on you while you were growing up? Did any of them personally affect your family?
24. Describe a typical family dinner. Did you all eat together as a family? Who did the cooking? What were your favorite foods?
25. How were holidays (birthdays, Christmas, etc.) celebrated in your family? Did your family have special traditions?
26. How is the world today different from what it was like when you were a child?
27. Who was the oldest relative you remember as a child? What do you remember about them?
28. What do you know about your family surname?
29. Is there a naming tradition in your family, such as always giving the firstborn son the name of his paternal grandfather?
30. What stories have come down to you about your parents? Grandparents? More distant ancestors?
31. Are there any stories about famous or infamous relatives in your family?
32. Have any recipes been passed down to you from family members?
33. Are there any physical characteristics that run in your family?
34. Are there any special heirlooms, photos, bibles or other memorabilia that have been passed down in your family?
35. What was the full name of your spouse? Siblings? Parents?
36. When and how did you meet your spouse? What did you do on dates?
37. What was it like when you proposed (or were proposed to)? Where and when did it happen? How did you feel?
38. Where and when did you get married?
39. What memory stands out the most from your wedding day?
40. How would you describe your spouse? What do (did) you admire most about them?
41. What do you believe is the key to a successful marriage?
42. How did you find out your were going to be a parent for the first time?
43. Why did you choose your children's names?
44. What was your proudest moment as a parent?
45. What did your family enjoy doing together?
46. What was your profession and how did you choose it?
47. If you could have had any other profession what would it have been? Why wasn't it your first choice?
48. Of all the things you learned from your parents, which do you feel was the most valuable?
49. What accomplishments were you the most proud of?
50. what would most like to be remembered for?

list Source: http://genealogy.about.com/cs/oralhistory/a/interview.htm

Now i'm not saying that you should use these to the book, just use the ones to suit the person. I have found that generally after 90 minutes, they will either start to go stale after to much bombardment with questions, or they just had enough of talking"shop" It is also handy to chit chat, even though you just want the info, as this breaks the interview up.

The world wide web, is a really great source for looking for all sorts of resources, you could save yourself alot of travelling time, and money, by just spending time looking for certain things.

My target families are 95% irish so Ireland is my target all the time, some of the government departments publish there records, take a look at my links page, there are plenty of sites there.

Go to the relevent archive offices, in ireland the national archives, the national library are two good ones, there are people in both these places who will help you to a certain extent, they'll get you started.

The church of the latter day saints, are dedicated to family history, for reasons of their religeon. They hold much records in their family centres,  which are found in most big cities in the western hemisphere. The one in Dublin holds lots of civil records, and some other medical and police records as well as census for 1901. They are the most helpful people I have met, and when I started out in this venture, they were the people who put me very much on the right track.

Graveyards are very good too, if you can get to the relevent one that is great, but if you can't, sometimes there are lists on the web, and pictures of the graves too. There was a great aunt that i was told of, who went to america, but no one really knew anymore than that. I put her name on google as well as graves and USA, and guess what? Yep, there she was on a grave list! so then I contacted the local historical society in that place, and for a small fee, they done a local search, and i got a bundle of information on her and her family.

Local parish offices are worth a try, for more recent BMD's that may have taken place in their church. Most larger graveyards would have an office, which you could ask where your relative is.

No matter what anyone tells you or what you read on the web, it is not an easy downhill slide, and can be very sticky at times, In the couple of years doing my own family, which I have still a long way to go, it has been an uphill slog, and it doe's not come to you, you have to go out and ask. I wish you luck, and if i can ever offer any help or advice just drop me a line at

ptrcrrn@gmail.com

Handy links

We all know that there are a million and five different places to go if you want to start looking into your irish roots, from my own experience, here is a selection of my faves.

www.familysearch.org

This is  genealogy nirvana, the latter day saints church, have created a search database of god knows how many different countries, in all sorts of civil and parish sources. In relation to Ireland, it will give you a cross reference that you can look up relevant details for civil births, deaths and marriages, going back to 1864 for catholic records and 1845 for church of ireland. Have a go, look up your granny, I bet she's there!

www.igp-web.com

The irish genealogy project, though some counties included in this, i must say are a little sparce on the info front, some are just an absolute gorge for a genealogical beast like myself. If you've got an interest in Carlow like me, you will see what i mean. these people must eat ,sleep and do whatever with the past on there mind. many a question has been answered on this one for me, and will continue to be i'm sure!

www.census.nationalarchives.ie

Up to september 2009 these lovely people from the national archive in dublin had the dublin county for the 1911 census available on the web, but now whoopee! it has gone NATIONAL!! Oh! happy day. It was amazing the amount of people I pulled from this is just outstanding. If your from across the way in uk or north america or oz, this is a good one to see where the family name stayed, when your ancestors done a runner from the famine, or poverty, or were just shipped out cos they were bad. You can find out where they came from, by seeing the family that remained until 1911 at least. Just a short footnote to this one, those wonderful people down the national archive now have the complete 1901 census online too! We can also look forward in the near future also to the 1926 census being made available too. It just doesn't get better than this, I have to say that this must be a definite first place to visit, when looking up your irish family history online
*****(5 stars) for this site

www.griffiths.askaboutireland.ie

From where I am standing, which is very easily corrected by the way. Griffiths valuation was a survey of the heads of family, their landlords, the amount of land they had, how much it was worth, and the rent they paid. This was done in the mid 1800's, I know in Carlow it was 1854/5. So this may give you as it gave me a positive indicator of my great grandparents location, and told me about those bad british landlords, who just milked whatever shillings out of my poor ancestors, so they could get fatter. But also a great source for post famine genealogy.

www.google.ie

As well as how to fix the washing machine, or how to make lassie do the latest trick, or how to tell a good joke, google has proved to be probably another hub of genealogical eden. You put in parish records ballyblahblah, county whatever, and chances are you'll get what you are looking for, and probably more. I found positive birth dates for grandparents, and so on.  but then would always end up looking for the best game of tetris online when i couldn't find something.

www.internment.net

A list of graves in cemeteries around the world, whilst doing my genealogy, I met a man, who would go around cemeteries on the northside of dublin and take photographs of every grave he comes to, then he would email them to these people who would then transcribe them and then you have it. I found an absolute corker on this site, I was told of a great aunt who just upped and left to live in wisconsin, so I googled her and there she was, with all her family in Yuma, Wisconsin. Unbelievable.

http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/glasnevin/

Good news on this one, I was down in Glasnevin the other day, trying to find out about my ancestors, and the nice man behind the counter at reception, said that this site will be publishing a cross referencable database in april 2010, similar to the irish census records of 1911, as he put it. it means that now I don't have to go to them every month, and that you, maybe across the oceans will now now who where and when your ancestors are buried in Irelands biggest cemetery.

www.ancestry.com   www.ancestry.co.uk

Though most things on this site you have to pay for, and you can see most of them for free on family search.org, the forums on here are great, but only if your from nth america/ oz etc, because they all talk of their GGGgrandmother, who was from so and so and her and the kavnaugh boys went over to oklahoma. good reading, though as well as that there are alot of free parish lists which are a brilliant source.

www.genealogy.com

like ancestry but smaller.

www.rootschat.com

forum wise i struck gold on this one, there are a bunch of family history heads on here, who are busting to see who comes in the door with there enquiry, and will go mad to help you, I have seen nothing but people thanking one another for the help and just wanting to please, after being put on a good sniff of a lead, by one of there fanatically helpful members, I got the bug and started joing in myself, this is a really helpful thing to do, because you can brush up on your own genealogical skills looking up for other people so you can dig yourself out of your own genealogical holes!!

www.genesreunited.co.uk

I paid €10 to join this site, and there is alot going on, but absolutely nothing came of it, they ask you to put in a family tree, I put in 200 of mine, and then they potentially link up two that are the same, saying that you have a match like a pair of cards, for instance, say aunt bessie was born in 1900 and then angus mcfergus up in aberdeen has an aunt bessie too, born in 1900 they will give you the chance to contact angus. I have contacted hundreds of people on this site, and wasted much time trying to get my €10 worth, but i'm sorry to say, not a thing. though I am not slagging them, i'm sure another person will tell you they found there long lost brother or something.

Curran family documents(with a little bit of background)#1

Here is a list of some documents I have in relation to my family history, census records, marriage certs, birth certs etc. Also I will add some footnotes about what sort of background i know of the situation looking at them.

Martin Curran(B1862) Marriage cert

Just three days earlier, on the 27th april, the summer Olympics had started in London, and the day after the nazi, Oskar Schindler, who was described as 'The Unforgettable Lifesaver of 1200 Persecuted Jews' was born.

Fairview church is found in the northeastern end of Dublin city, nestling on the banks of the River Tolka. Five years earlier my Grandfather, martin Curran had lost his first wife margaret Gaul, from Knocksquire, County Carlow. He had three surviving children from this marriage. These were Mary(11years) Sarah(9years) and frank(10years), these are the ages they were in 1908. Margaret Doyle, my grandmother had known martin previously, and was a minder of Martins children. At the time martin was living in the family home in richmond avenue, fairview, and Margaret Doyle resided in Russell terrace in Church Road, Eastwall. Margaret lived with

Alfred and Sarah Spellman of Russell Terrace. Alfred(39 at the time), who was born in Australia, was a carriers clerk, and reputedly owned a pub in Henry street in Dublin city. Sarah was the female witness at the wedding, she was 35 years old at the time, and was born in County Wicklow. My aunt kathleen Curran remembers this couple as being close friends of Margaret, her mother. At that time they had been married for 16 years, and had no children.  Kathleen also noted that her brother Alfred(my uncle) was named after this gentleman.

William Flynn, was the male witness at the wedding, he was a barber, and ran his business in fairview strand, where he also lived, He married mary in 1908, begging the question were martin and william married on the same day. William and his wife mary were both 24 years of age at the time.

The priest that married, my grandparents was, Denis Pettit, who was 56 years old and from Granard, County Longford.

There are alot of theories shooting around about the wedding, and many questions to answer, Martin was 45 on his wedding day, and William Flynn was only 24. Would it have been a fact that William was marrying in the church on the same day, and martin got him because he had no male witness? Or were they genuinely friends? Time will tell, as I will checkout William and Marys wedding date.

16 june 2011
Just a small update on this, i did check up on william flynns marriage date and it was the 20/7/1908, so he was not married on the same day. though 26 fairview strand is quite literally opposite the church, and maybe it was the case that martin 'nabbed' him. maybe he knew him, maybe he didn't. we will never know.

Curran gravestones in Drumphea, County Carlow

 There are two gravestones, right in the backwoods of southeastern carlow, in a quaint little village called

Drumphea, this how they read;

My grandfather, Martin Curran, seemed like myself to have a very strong connection with his ancestors, he raised this grave in memory of his father and also all of those in the grave, but also, there is one thing to note, and it is important, that not necarsarily are all the people mentioned on the stones are actually interred beneath them, there are at least three of them, firstly Martin Curran DMP himself, he lived and died up in Dublin and is buried in Glasnevin cemetery. second on the list is Peter Curran, who is buried with his family in Bunclody, just a few miles from Drumphea. Then thirdly is Catherine Curran, who is buried with her family in St Patricks cemetery in Vernon county, Wisconsin, USA. Upon seeing these graves in this light, it would be quite safe to say that these gravestones, one of which was erected by Martin DMP was more of a tribute to his Carlow family, rather than just a normal record of who lies below. A kind of genealogical list for future Currans to visit and admire.

The great thing about these graves is that they immediately transport us back to around 1788, when my Great Great Grandfather, Martin Curran was born(according to the stone) and his wife anne who was born a year later.

Though I cannot say 100%, that alot of the dates and ages mentioned on the stone do not nessarsarily add up. I will give all the examples i know at present(11/09)

Nannie Curran died 4/12/1884 age 24 years, I have seen her christening record as 30/1/1857 as anne, she would have actually been just two months short of her 28th birthday.

Mary Curran died 27th april 1889 age 27 years, once again, I have seen her baptismal cert on 4 nov 1858 which would have made her 30 years old.

Patrick Curran died 4 april 1889 age 17 years, again I have seen his civil birth certificate for 27 feb 1870 so he would've be over 19 years.

Peter curran died 11 may 1929 age 56. Peter is buried over in the old cemetery in bunclody, on that grave it states that he died in 1928, he was born 1 feb 1872, according to the civil record of his birth. It would be correct in bunclody but he should be 57 on the drumphea grave.

Bridget Curran died jan 12 1963 age 85, I have seen her civil record, and she was born 14 may 1875, 4 months short of her 88th birthday.

There are a couple of reasons this may have  happenned. Firstly when Martin was erecting the first grave he may have had record of the dates of death, and may have gone by his memory, as to how old they were when they died, I was told by my father that Martin DMP was quite old when that grave was raised. The next, and most probable explanation, was the fact that back in those days, people just didn't celebrate their birthdays like what we do nowadays, your birthday would just come and go, without you being aware of it, and then as time went on, birthdays came more fashionable, and then these people may have speculated their age, usually giving it a couple of years younger than they actually were. I have seen it elsewhere in my ancestry.

I know for a fact that  James and Sarah are definitely correct. As for the rest, I don't know.

There is a third Curran grave in Drumphea just a few yards away from these two.  I have recently spoken to a second cousin, who has informed me that it is of her father James Curran, who was the son of Francis Curran.

Curran family reunion in Drumphea, and a brief visit to Kildavin and Clonegal

It was a very interesting day I had yesterday, I was invited along to a Curran family reunion, my grandfather’s two brothers, Frank and Peter Curran’s descendants had all met at Bunclody Golf Club. Then they were going on to Bunclody old Cemetery, to see Peter Currans grave, I didn’t make it to meet them there as there was a bit of a mix up. I actually had a bit of a mini tour of a few cemeteries before I met up with them.

My Great Great Grandfather, Thomas Doyle and his wife Anne Willis's gravestone, and other family. also the various inscriptions around the grave

Firstly, I visited Kildavin old cemetery, where my GGGP’s Tom Doyle and Anne Willis are buried, I used to have a picture of this grave but lost a whole pile of genealogy pics on an old card I had. So I needed to redo them. So my main objective here was to take pictures of all Doyle and Curran graves that I saw, I also had a request from a genealogist to look out for Devereux graves too, of which I found one, so happy days. I also found a grave for one James Curran, who after much thought, I now know was my GGF’s Francis Currans brother. I know this because my Grandfathers sister, Catherine had moved up to Kildavin, and was registered as living there when she married Michael Ralph. Like most other older Curran’s, they tended to go and live with or close to wherever other family members were, on this occasion it was with Uncle Jim in Kildavin. There are other Doyle graves in Kildavin, and in time I will connect them.

Gravestone of my great grandfather Peter Doyle and his wife Mary Redmond, also in this grave is my Great Great grandparents James Redmond and Catherine Kenny

Next up, I went to Clonegal, where I took pictures of all Doyle and Redmond graves, as this is the graveyard that my GGF Peter Doyle and Mary Redmond are buried, Mary is from Clonegal, so there has to be other Redmond relatives here.

After this, I was supposed to go to Bunclody cemetery, but it did not happen. I did visit, however the protestant cemetery in Clonegal. There were a few Doyle’s in there, but I don’t think they are connected, or are they?

After this, I headed toward Drumphea, though I was slightly delayed in my journey with a bit of a bump with another car. But in good time I made it to Drumphea. The Currans were all there, my camera was now broken by this time too. So I took no pics here. Later we went to the local hostelry called High Nelly’s Pub, where I then found that I had a puncture. There was a big crowd of Currans in the pub, but as I said, no camera, so will just have to wait for the next reunion. I will hopefully be holding it in conjunction with my brothers visit in September, so plenty of pics then. They are a lovely family, and though not 100% percent the same as my own family, there is still those traits, which were quite extensively discussed. The men all very grey haired, even the ones in their forties, like myself, the ‘big blue eyes’ as someone described them, it was true, I saw a picture of Peter Curran, my grandfathers brother, and they had the same features, notably the chin, which seemed to show on a few people in the room, and the nose, I showed them a picture of my dad, and it was noticed that this is a similar nose to alot of people in the room. The picture of peter really reminded me of my sister’s dot and carol, especially across the eyes, and it even reminded me a bit of one of carols boys. I also had the pleasure of meeting Joan Curran who would be my father’s first cousin. I also had the pleasure of meeting Winnie, whom I had spoken to on so many other occasions, and finally had the pleasure of meeting her face to face. As well as all the other Currans, Daly’s and Hoolahans, whom some I had met in Dublin previously, but met a few more this time round. We had a great afternoon, which in view of the other events that happened in the day to me with the car, really outshone them, and left me on departure, alot more upbeat and uplifted. These Currans are a really nice family, and I am really grateful that they have let me into their fold.

Visit to Glasnevin cemetery

Yesterday afternoon was an absolute scorcher, well for us anyway, so I had a bit of time on my hands, so took a stroll around Glasnevin cemetery to visit relatives. I took some pics of my relatives graves and thought i'd show them here.

First up is my Gradfather, Martin Currans grave (NH172.5)

It was quite a surprise to see that work is being carried out in the area, this area was very over grown and uneven, it was really cool to see it being returned to it's former glory, I have seen other areas which the work has been completed and they look good. the only snag was that, even though it doesn't really apply to martins grave, if there was anything on the ground in front of the graves it has all been removed, there was a small bush in front of this grave that my dad planted, and that is gone, but it all looks so good now.

My Uncle Frank Curran(JL291.5)

My Uncle Alf, he is in the cremation plot near the front gate

John Curran, my Grandfathers Uncle(circled)WD88.5

Closer view of John Currans grave top half

.....And bottom half

Deborah Maher nee Curran, my fathers 1st cousin(daughter of Peter Curran, Newtownbarry) in the cremation plot.

My wifes Grandparents on her mothers side

My wifes Great Grandparents

My wifes great grandfather, William Brophys grave, marked X YD144

Teresa Hayden, my wifes great great grandmother, marked X BK321

Summary

I have now, over about the last three weeks shown a summary of the various aspects of my and my wifes genealogy. I have to say that while I have been doing this alot has been brought to a head, it has been the first time that I have really reviewed all the work I have carried out over the last two and a half years. It says to me how far I have come, and all the people I have met, which has truly been an experience in itself, and I hope to continue making headway for all the family groups which I have covered. Some of these families knew very little when I started, but now know more, but I would love to have that clarity of vision, that you seem to see on “who do you think you are” but then they have a field of professional genealogical experts.

I have always felt that hunting it down and finding it yourself is really satisfying, though I have received help from a couple of online forums, and of course the Church of the Latter Day Saints in Glasnevin. So I suppose now is the time to give a big thank you to all the people and organisations who have supplied, pointed, collaborated and assisted me on my road thus far:

Dermot Curran                  Andrew Curran                 Mary Curran(O’Rorke)   Patricia Hills(O’Rorke)

Kathleen Curran               Michael Foley                    Richard Hoolahan             Frank Curran(Drumphea)

Winnie Dowling                                Tillie Brennan                     Senan Cooke                     Dr Kieron Cooke

Frank Curran(Carlow town)         Katsy Hanly         Deirdre Kelly                      Margaret Mills

Liam Brophy                       Eileen Howard                   Christine Mills                    Les Mills

Helen Casey                       Catherine@LDS                                Brian@LDS                          The Dent family in Canada

The National Library of Ireland                                   The church of the Latter Day Saints, Glasnevin

The National Archives of Ireland                               The Glasnevin Trust        The Garda Museum, Dublin Castle

The Vernon County Historical Society                     Terry Curran

If there is a name here I haven’t mentioned, then tell me, and I will add it to the list. These are just from the top of my head, I am absolutely amazed when I look at this list, to realise that I have contacted so many individuals!

Many people give me a pat on the back, and say I am doing a great job finding out all this stuff, but it is only the tip that I am scratching at, I suppose after a decade or so, chipping away, I will truly show a bit more beef. I don’t personally think I do that well, and I feel I move to slowly, but this is just through pure thoroughness of study. It is really good to fully read everything as it may have to be referenced back to in the future.

It is an uphill climb, but every now and then you come across a snippet of information that may point you in another direction, or even the right direction!! It is always great to exchange notes with fellow family historians as they are as hungry as you are for information.

As to where to go in the future:

Currans:               It is all quite transparent back to my granddad and his siblings to the present day, so now is the case to move onto Francis Curran(my GGF) and his siblings and work to the present day, I will probably start with John Curran, who seemed to be closely associated with my granddads family. I have also liaised with a fellow Curran family historian, Terry Curran, who is studying the Currans of Carlow town, who we both know are related to the Currans of Drumphea, but as yet, there is no connection, hopefully in the future we will collaborate more.

Doyles:                 nearly all is known back to my grandmother and back to the present day, and I have had a little more success in fiding a brother of my GGF’s Descendant living in auystralia and she was very accommodating with information. It would be nice to try and piece together all the Doyles who are buried in Clonegal, Kildavin and Bunclody, and find the connections. But then all the willis’ and redmonds too.

Mills:                     Loads to do on my wifes grandparents and their siblings, another way off in the distance project.

Brophy:                                Alot of headway was made particularly with the brophys, and I hope to find more in the future.

O’Rorke:              I have names dating back to AD310, but know very little about them, so a future project is to read up on them, and hopefully have a bit more of a knowledge of my forefathers. Whom, from what I have briefly seen, have a very colourful history, what with tribal clans, celtic kings and the norman invasion of Ireland seem to have the O’Rorke name written all over them.

Cooke:                  Like the Mills’ and the O’Rorkes, I still need to go back to the grandparents siblings, and work my way back forward to the present day. The Cookes, again like the O’Rorkes, have a really colourful history dating back to the middle ages, Oliver Cromwell, stately homes, Lord Chief Justice of England are a few things I have seen in my brief looks at their history.

As I said before, it is an uphill struggle, which I hope to pursue for the rest of my life, as I really want to see some connections happen. I know they will, and this is the purpose of this blog, just to keep inputting info until I have no more, but it will never run out. I know a genealogist, who is constantly pursueing her family, and now has something in the region of 4000 individuals in her family tree!! Maybe in the future, I can proudly say that with some clarity.

The Brophys' and the Kellys'

Onto my wife's mother's side. My mother in laws mother and father were John Brophy and Eileen Kelly. Not much has been known about the Brophy side, but I can proudly say that I have taken a step or two forward in the time I have worked on this aspect of the family. John was born in the north city Dublin in 1908, it is not to clear what happened, but by the time of the census, his sister and himself are no longer with their parents and are living in Ringsend, Dublin, with possibly his aunt on his father’s side.
Upon questioning his children, it all appears very vague, though we do now know that Johns father, William is still alive and is seen in the 1911 census as living as a tenant in Capel Street. His trade description on this was a cork cutter. I went looking up at Glasnevin cemetery and asked around, they said there was a William who died in 1919 and was a cork cutter! Bingo! Though unfortunately it was an unmarked grave, but at least I found him.
Though I cannot say where William was from, though the aunt who John Brophy lived in Ringsend with, her maiden name was Brophy and she was born in Thomas Street in Dublin. But it has also been said that he was from county Carlow, which would not be too hard to say, as it is a relatively common name down in those parts.
William was married to Teresa Hayden, apparently I was told she was from county Louth, I tracked her down to being born in Mary Street, Drogheda. Another feather in my cap. I found out the name of her mum and dad, Michael Hayden and Teresa Walsh, Teresa subsequently moved out of Drogheda and down to Terrace Place in Dublin, and ended her days there. By the way this is where John Brophy was born. I also found the location of her grave in Glasnevin cemetery, though it is an unmarked one like Williams. But still no trace of Teresa Hayden junior, it has been said to me that she may have died when John was born and that is how he ended up with other family away from dad. But there are no records of a Teresa B dying around that time, though there is one for 1919, that will still have to be checked out. Apparently there is only one Teresa Brophy buried in Glasnevin for that period, but she is a child. This is quite a hard one but I have given it alot of time, and still wish to give it alot more.
Also, up in Drogheda, there is an old cemetery on Chord Road and I am very sure there are Haydens buried there, though when I went there, it was extremely overgrown and the gates were locked.
The mother in law’s mother was Ellen Kelly, better known as Sisse. Her family are alot more clear cut, she was born down in Gloucester Place in Dublin, to a very large family. Her father was William from county Carlow, and her mother was Margaret Farrell from Maddabawn county Cavan.
The kellys’ have many descendants and they all seem to be in touch, and with the brophys’ too.  

The Mills' and the Jones'

Jack and Lily Mills and children

Now over to my wife’s side, her maiden name was Mills, and she is from Dublin. Her father who sadly passed away in the mid 90’s, he was named Davie and is buried in Malahide CoI cemetery. He is buried with his mother and father there, Jack and Elizabeth Mills, Elizabeth’s maiden name was Jones and she was born in Garth Bach, Caernarvonshire, Wales.

Davie was in fact born down in Kineagh, county Kildare, his father was a caretaker for a man called Colonel Blackner, who lived in a stately home in Castlemartin, Kilcullen, county Kildare. At a young age Davie moved up to Malahide and his father Jack became a groundskeeper for Lord Talbot, who owned Malahide castle at the time. The mills’ lived in the gatehouse which is still there on Malahide road. Davie was a mechanic, and had for many years had the prestige of working as a mechanic for Rolls Royce, up to his retirement.

Jack with horse

Jack Mills, Davies father was born in Cromwellstown, Rathangan, county Kildare, in 1890, he was born as John William Mills. Though in the 1901 and 1911 census, he is living in Kilcullen. He met his future wife, Lily in Ireland, she may have worked around the Johnstown area of Kildare. Jack and Lily had four children, of which Davie was the youngest. Jack was in the British army during the First World War, and served in the Army Remount Service, a department that deals with the upbringing, training and deployment of horses within the army. They were quite a major unit in those days, because most things were done with horses in those days, rather than motorized. When Jack moved into Malahide, he was known to be involved in the upbringing and training of racehorses. Jack passed away in 1963 and Lily in 1954.

Going back a little further, Jacks dad was Michael Mills who was born in 1860 in county Kildare, his Mother was Hannah Ward born about 1868 also in county Kildare. Jack was one of ten siblings. I have gone down around Kilcullen and had a look around the local CoI cemetery in Yellow Bog, but no luck in finding Michael or his family, there is another Mills in there, but though she may be a cousin. The Blackners are all buried in this cemetery, so you’d naturally think there would be Mills’ there too. I have been told that there is an old church and cemetery in Castlemartin, but as yet, I still have to check.

Davies mother lily as we know is from Wales, her father was Robert Jones, who died before she was born. Her mother was Laura Green possibly from Dorset. Davies Grandfather and Grandmother on his mother’s side were William Jones and Mary.

I found alot of this side out through help I received from web forums, on this occasion, rootschat. I was told of a grave in St Cedols Cemetery, Pentir near Bangor, Wales (HO63 is the number), in which William, Mary and Robert are buried. Apparently there is an inscription on it in welsh, which I shall share with you:

“Am hyny byddwch chwithau barod:/Canys yn yr awr ni thybioch y daw/Mab y dyn”

Translated;

“For ye that are ready: / For in the hour we come to the house of god / Son of man”

I have heard it from a couple of people that the Jones family were related to former British Prime Minister David Lloyd George. I have thrown this too into the forums, but haven’t had much joy. Though he is from not too far away from the Bangor area.